Discussion:
The paper bag test
(too old to reply)
torresD
2004-04-12 18:04:01 UTC
Permalink
The paper bag test


By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Each year,
the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission receives about 85,000
discrimination cases,

a phenomenon to be expected in
a society that touts itself as a
"melting pot."

Many of these cases involve the
omplaints of minority groups
against majority groups.

We rarely expect a member of a
minority group to discriminate
against someone else in the same
group.

But that is exactly what
happens among African-Americans.

More than any other minority
group in the United States,
blacks discriminate against
one another.

The discrimination, called "colorism,"
is based on skin tone:

whether a person is dark-skinned
or light-skinned or in the broad
middle somewhere.

Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private.

According to the EEOC, though,
the number of such cases are steadily
increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal
year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002,
a figure that represents about
3 percent of all cases the
agency receives yearly.

The most recent case making news
in the black press involves two
employees of an Applebee's restaurant
in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta.

There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter,
who has left the restaurant, filed a
lawsuit against Applebee's and his
light-skinned African-American manager.

In the suit,
Burch alleged that during
his three-month stint,
the manager repeatedly referred to
him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby."

The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin,
and Burch was fired after he refused to do so,
the suit states.

Colorism has a long and ugly
history among American blacks,
dating back to slavery,

when light-skinned blacks were
automatically given preferential
treatment by plantation owners
and their henchmen.

Colorism's history is fascinating:

Fair-skinned slaves automatically
enjoyed plum jobs in the master's
house, if they had to work at all.

Many traveled throughout the nation
and abroad with their masters and
their families.

They were exposed to the finer things,
and many became educated as a result.

Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields.

They were the ones who were
beaten, burned and hanged,
the ones permanently condemned
to be the lowest of the low in
U.S. society.

For them, even learning -
reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic -
was illegal.

When slavery ended,
light-skinned blacks established
social organizations that barred
darker ex-slaves.

Elite blacks of the early 20th century
were fair-skinned almost to the person.

Even today,
most blacks in high positions
have fair skin tones, and most
blacks who do menial jobs or
are in prison are dark.

Believe it or not,
popular black magazines,
such as Ebony as Essence,
prefer light-skinned models
in their beauty product ads.

For many years, entrance to
special social events operated
on the "brown paper bag" principle,
which I will explain.

Until quite recently,
black fraternities and sororities,
for example, recruited according to
skin tone.

Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes
the problem, and Alice Walker's novel
The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.

In his 1996 book The Future of the Race,
Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the
Afro-American studies department at Harvard,
described his encounter with the brown
paper bag when he came to Yale in the
late 1960s,

when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced:

"Some of the brothers who came from
New Orleans held a "bag party.'

As a classmate explained it to me,
a bag party was a New Orleans custom
wherein a brown paper bag was stuck
on the door.

"Anyone darker than the
bag was denied entrance.

That was one cultural legacy that
would be put to rest in a hurry -
we all made sure of that.

But in a manner of speaking,
it was replaced by an opposite
test whereby those who were deemed
"not black enough' ideologically
were to be shunned.

I was not sure this was an improvement."

Gates was overly optimistic.
The brown paper bag test remains
in black culture in various incarnations,
as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's
statistics confirm.

We separate ourselves by skin tone
almost as much as we ever did.

If, say,
you check out the "desired"
female beauties in rap videos,
you will find redbones galore.

Back to the Applebee's case.

A spokesman for the chain
issued this statement:

"No one should have to put up
with mean and humiliating comments
about the color of their skin on the job. . . .

It makes no difference that these
comments are made by someone of your
own race.

Actually, that makes it even worse."

Although the chain denied the allegations,
it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.

Now for the irony of ironies:

Applebee's has added a protection,
along with cultural sensitivity training,
against skin-tone discrimination to its
antidiscrimination policies.

In other words, the company must
protect African-Americans from
other African-Americans.

Discrimination from whites and
other groups remains a big problem
for blacks.

But colorism is just as serious,
if not more so. Colorism saps our
strength from the inside.

It weakens our power and ability to
fight the outside forces that keep
us marginalized in larger society.

Correction
The Tamiami Trail was misidentified
as Alligator Alley in Bill Maxwell's Aug. 27 column.
"Guest"
2004-04-13 03:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Funny you should post this. PR's and other (mainly) Caribbean hispanics use
this also. Slavery affects all of us who were slaves, it is not only in
America. I would also bet this is practiced in the Arabic world.
--
www.unclet.netifms.com
Post by torresD
The paper bag test
By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Post by torresD
----
Each year,
the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission receives about 85,000
discrimination cases,
a phenomenon to be expected in
a society that touts itself as a
"melting pot."
Many of these cases involve the
omplaints of minority groups
against majority groups.
We rarely expect a member of a
minority group to discriminate
against someone else in the same
group.
But that is exactly what
happens among African-Americans.
More than any other minority
group in the United States,
blacks discriminate against
one another.
The discrimination, called "colorism,"
whether a person is dark-skinned
or light-skinned or in the broad
middle somewhere.
Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private.
According to the EEOC, though,
the number of such cases are steadily
increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal
year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002,
a figure that represents about
3 percent of all cases the
agency receives yearly.
The most recent case making news
in the black press involves two
employees of an Applebee's restaurant
in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta.
There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter,
who has left the restaurant, filed a
lawsuit against Applebee's and his
light-skinned African-American manager.
In the suit,
Burch alleged that during
his three-month stint,
the manager repeatedly referred to
him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby."
The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin,
and Burch was fired after he refused to do so,
the suit states.
Colorism has a long and ugly
history among American blacks,
dating back to slavery,
when light-skinned blacks were
automatically given preferential
treatment by plantation owners
and their henchmen.
Fair-skinned slaves automatically
enjoyed plum jobs in the master's
house, if they had to work at all.
Many traveled throughout the nation
and abroad with their masters and
their families.
They were exposed to the finer things,
and many became educated as a result.
Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields.
They were the ones who were
beaten, burned and hanged,
the ones permanently condemned
to be the lowest of the low in
U.S. society.
For them, even learning -
reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic -
was illegal.
When slavery ended,
light-skinned blacks established
social organizations that barred
darker ex-slaves.
Elite blacks of the early 20th century
were fair-skinned almost to the person.
Even today,
most blacks in high positions
have fair skin tones, and most
blacks who do menial jobs or
are in prison are dark.
Believe it or not,
popular black magazines,
such as Ebony as Essence,
prefer light-skinned models
in their beauty product ads.
For many years, entrance to
special social events operated
on the "brown paper bag" principle,
which I will explain.
Until quite recently,
black fraternities and sororities,
for example, recruited according to
skin tone.
Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes
the problem, and Alice Walker's novel
The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.
In his 1996 book The Future of the Race,
Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the
Afro-American studies department at Harvard,
described his encounter with the brown
paper bag when he came to Yale in the
late 1960s,
"Some of the brothers who came from
New Orleans held a "bag party.'
As a classmate explained it to me,
a bag party was a New Orleans custom
wherein a brown paper bag was stuck
on the door.
"Anyone darker than the
bag was denied entrance.
That was one cultural legacy that
would be put to rest in a hurry -
we all made sure of that.
But in a manner of speaking,
it was replaced by an opposite
test whereby those who were deemed
"not black enough' ideologically
were to be shunned.
I was not sure this was an improvement."
Gates was overly optimistic.
The brown paper bag test remains
in black culture in various incarnations,
as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's
statistics confirm.
We separate ourselves by skin tone
almost as much as we ever did.
If, say,
you check out the "desired"
female beauties in rap videos,
you will find redbones galore.
Back to the Applebee's case.
A spokesman for the chain
"No one should have to put up
with mean and humiliating comments
about the color of their skin on the job. . . .
It makes no difference that these
comments are made by someone of your
own race.
Actually, that makes it even worse."
Although the chain denied the allegations,
it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.
Applebee's has added a protection,
along with cultural sensitivity training,
against skin-tone discrimination to its
antidiscrimination policies.
In other words, the company must
protect African-Americans from
other African-Americans.
Discrimination from whites and
other groups remains a big problem
for blacks.
But colorism is just as serious,
if not more so. Colorism saps our
strength from the inside.
It weakens our power and ability to
fight the outside forces that keep
us marginalized in larger society.
Correction
The Tamiami Trail was misidentified
as Alligator Alley in Bill Maxwell's Aug. 27 column.
h0mi
2004-04-17 08:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Guest"
Funny you should post this. PR's and other (mainly) Caribbean
hispanics use this also. Slavery affects all of us who were slaves,
it is not only in America. I would also bet this is practiced in the
Arabic world.
The "paper bag test" seems to not be limited to skin color & race
(figuratively speaking)- look at the outcry over hispanics who are deemed
"not hispanic enough" in political circles. And of course, the definition
of "American" in this country follows a similar pattern.
"Guest"
2004-04-17 14:20:32 UTC
Permalink
--




www.unclet.netifms.com
Post by h0mi
Post by "Guest"
Funny you should post this. PR's and other (mainly) Caribbean
hispanics use this also. Slavery affects all of us who were slaves,
it is not only in America. I would also bet this is practiced in the
Arabic world.
The "paper bag test" seems to not be limited to skin color & race
(figuratively speaking)- look at the outcry over hispanics who are deemed
"not hispanic enough" in political circles. And of course, the definition
of "American" in this country follows a similar pattern.
The funny thing is, these same hispanics who say that others (white styled?)
people are not hispanic enough are trying hard to be like those people.
RogueStar
2004-04-17 18:30:54 UTC
Permalink
""Guest""
Post by "Guest"
The funny thing is, these same hispanics who say that others (white
styled?)
Post by "Guest"
people are not hispanic enough are trying hard to be like those people.
I have never heard of any hispanic/latino put down
any other hispanic for trying to act "white" or to
be more "white styled" in your words.
Black skin, black identity is what hispanics
and others try to get away from, deny, try to
eradicate, not white.
Hispanics/ Latinos hide the pictures of their
dark skinned, negroid featured relatives,
not their white relatives.
Nobody is putting their straight hair,
"white looking" relatives in the closet,
it's the black skin, the black features,
flat nose, jutted out jaw, thick lips,
kinky hair that people want to hide,
deny, not white.
So does it bother you that most hispanics in Puerto Rico are more
indiginous/African than they are white? I bet you have jew-curly hair
and dark brown skin. Someone sounds as if they have an ethnic
complex. You poor PRs; you want to be part of America, but America
doesn't want you. If you want to flame, go to AFN.
torresD
2004-04-17 20:33:22 UTC
Permalink
"RogueStar"
I have never heard of any hispanic/latino put down
any other hispanic for trying to act "white" or to
be more "white styled" in your words.
Black skin, black identity is what hispanics
and others try to get away from, deny, try to
eradicate, not white.
Hispanics/ Latinos hide the pictures of their
dark skinned, negroid featured relatives,
not their white relatives.
Nobody is putting their straight hair,
"white looking" relatives in the closet,
it's the black skin, the black features,
flat nose, jutted out jaw, thick lips,
kinky hair that people want to hide,
deny, not white.
So does it bother you that most
hispanics in Puerto Rico are more
indiginous/African than they are white?
Have you been to Puerto Rico?
That isn't true.
Most Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico
ae not indigenous/African than they are white,
it's the other way around in Puerto Rico.
Take a look at the Puerto Rican politicians,
governors, mayors, teachers, etc.,
they are a reflection of Puerto Ricans throughout
the island and they are not African looking.
If they were, they wouldn't get elected.

I bet you have jew-curly hair
and dark brown skin.

No I don't. Taxi's have never whizzed by me,
because they are afraid to pick me up.

I think brown skin, with nice features and nice hair
are prettier and better looking than white skin,
with the identical features.


Someone sounds as if they have an ethnic
complex. You poor PRs; you want to be part of America, but America
doesn't want you. If you want to flame, go to AFN.
Well you are certainly right there,
most Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico,
not all, but most want to be the 51st state.

However, that is not what the American adminstration,
any American administration wants, otherwise,
Puerto Rico status would not be in limbo over 100 years later.

Americans clearly do not reject Puerto Rico.

However, blacks, because of their skin color and
negroid features are also despised in America.

So that is one thing that blacks and Puerto Ricans have
in common, rejection by mainstream America.

The only difference is, that "white" Puerto Ricans,
I know you hate that term, but it's true, regardless,
can marry white males and there children will not come
out looking like zebras.

So Puerto Ricans have blended into the white majority,
by marrying white males, Puerto Rican males prefer
white females, making sure their kids don't speak spanish,
or have spanish sounding names and that is how they do it.

I know plenty of Puerto Ricans, whose parents, grandparents
were born in Puerto Rico, but have married "white" so that
their children do not know their grandparents, don't know where
Puerto Rico is.

They visit Puerto Rico, to visit their parents and grandparents,
but never take their spouse or their kids.

That is how they have chosen to cope.

We do talk about it, among ourselves.
Some people are very defensive about this,
but they rationalize their actions by saying
look Puerto Ricans are not accepted in mainstream
America and we want our kids to have a chance.

I have an aunt, my mom's sister, who broke her back
raising her only daughter, using every dime from her
railroad clerk supervisor salary to invest in her daughter's
education.

Moved to a neighborhood, Riverdale, NY,
to live in a shoebox, because it was a better neighborhood
and it was.

Her daughter, Margarita, she calls herself Margaret,
but her mom named her Margarita, became a physical
therapist and married a Jewish neurologist.
She had to jump through hoops to convert to his religion
and even then she explained to me, at her mom's funeral
they never really accepted her.

They lived in Lakewood, New Jersey,
they have since moved to Israel.

Her mom, a diabetic, became blind and lost part of her foot,
eventually the entire leg, to the knee.

Margaret would come for hurried visits,
but never brought her husband or her children.

Jews have a tradition where they have "naming"
ceremonies when a child is born.
Carmenlina had to insist, to be able to invited.

My aunt, Carmenlina died, her daughter
did not bring the children to the funeral,
her husband drove her in to the city,
he did not enter the funeral parlor.
Margarita stayed for period of time and left.
She came to her mother's burial, that was
in 1992.
I keep in touch with Margarita via email.
She sends me pictures of her family,
but she has never invited me to Israel.

Her children, two sons and a daughter
have been raised as Jews, they have no
contact with the Puerto Rican side of their
family at all.

Margaret who spoke Spanish fluently,
claim she no longer remembers the language.

But I know of Puerto Rican males, marrying white females,
living in upstate, New York, their children do not visit
their "Puerto Rican" family and are being raised
in a strictly white culture, even though their kids have
spanish surnames.


It's shameful that Puerto Ricans do this,
I see it in my own family.

However, blacks would not be able to do it,
even when they want to as depicted in
"The paper bag test" because their dark skin,
negroid features, flat nose, thick, protruding lips,
jutted out jaws, kinky hair makes that impossible.
torresD
2004-04-17 21:08:11 UTC
Permalink
"torresD"
Post by torresD
"RogueStar"
I bet you have jew-curly hair
and dark brown skin.
No I don't. Taxi's have never whizzed by me,
because they are afraid to pick me up.
I have never needed a government escort
to force employers to hire me, always had
good paying jobs and never had to file a suit
against a real estate agency for not renting
or selling a home to me.

Never had to sue my employer in order to
get promoted, never had that problem,
because I blend in just fine.

In Florida, my bilingualism, my skin color,
is an advantage not a disadvantage.
I can go anywhere I like without having
to shove myself down people's throats.
threatening them with lawsuits if they
don't sell me a home, hire me, promote me, etc.
They don't point to me and say look I've
already got one, isn't that enough.
Never been stopped by a police officer,
while driving a vehicle for nonsense, just
so they can check me out.
Just doesn't happen.
That only happens to you when you are black.
And it is wrong and shameful that it does happen.
Driving while black should not be a crime,
and Police Officers should not be able to
stop blacks on a pretext, harass them or intimidate
them in anyway.
But unfortunately, it does happen and the only reason
it happens is because they are black.
I saw on a court tv, a male black arrested for
carrying an unlicensed loaded 25 caliber gun, and 4 bags of
marijuana.
When the Judge imposed $25,000.00 bail,
his mom, fell to her knees weeping and had to
be escorted from the courtroom.
But the Judge did ask what was the reason for the stop,
and the ADA said, that a gust of wind had raised
his shirt enabling the Police Officer to detect the gun.
The lawyer, said "that must have been some gust of wind".
Just watch Court TV, and you will see this over and over again.
I don't think this is right and frankly if I was on a jury
and an officer came in with that story, I would not convict,
regardless of whether or not the male black was carrying
an unlicensed gun.
In the Netherlands, if a cop approaches a person
and finds nothing, no drugs, no weapon, etc.,
the cop must have a really good explanation for that stop.
I have Newsworld International and they have segments
as their name predicts from all over the world.
I feel very strongly that male blacks should not be
stopped on the basis that they are black males,
and have the Police Officer invent what is clearly
an excuse as to the reason why that black male
was stopped in the first place.
It's not fair, it's not right, it's against the constitution.
Post by torresD
I think brown skin, with nice features and nice hair
are prettier and better looking than white skin,
with the identical features.
Someone sounds as if they have an ethnic
Post by RogueStar
complex. You poor PRs; you want to be part of America, but America
doesn't want you. If you want to flame, go to AFN.
I'n not flaming, I'm just telling the truth.
You're in denial.

What's AFN?

Well you are certainly right there,
most Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico,
not all, but most want to be the 51st state.

However, that is not what the American adminstration,
any American administration wants, otherwise,
Puerto Rico status would not be in limbo over 100 years later.

Americans clearly do not reject Puerto Rico.

I didn't mean to say that, because it is clearly
wrong, incorrect.

Americans clearly do reject Puerto Rico
and do not want Puerto Rico as a state,
or anything else.
That is absolutely true.
Post by torresD
However, blacks, because of their skin color and
negroid features are also despised in America.
And this is a lie?!!

AA's are not the only minorities in America.
Asians, Koreans, Chinese, Japanese are also minorities.
They, however, are accepted and are in demand.
Asians are seduced by astronomical salary offers,
from established corporations, even before they
graduate from American Ivy League Colleges.

White Americans associate Asians with elevated brain power
and that is why they are in demand.
Post by torresD
So that is one thing that blacks and Puerto Ricans have
in common, rejection by mainstream America.
"Guest"
2004-04-19 14:20:30 UTC
Permalink
--




www.unclet.netifms.com
Post by torresD
"torresD"
Post by torresD
"RogueStar"
I bet you have jew-curly hair
and dark brown skin.
No I don't. Taxi's have never whizzed by me,
because they are afraid to pick me up.
I have never needed a government escort
to force employers to hire me, always had
good paying jobs and never had to file a suit
against a real estate agency for not renting
or selling a home to me.
Never had to sue my employer in order to
get promoted, never had that problem,
because I blend in just fine.
In Florida, my bilingualism, my skin color,
is an advantage not a disadvantage.
I can go anywhere I like without having
to shove myself down people's throats.
threatening them with lawsuits if they
Those Cubans run things down there, that is why you can do that. The Cubans
already filed lawsuits. Where in this country do PR's run things?
"Guest"
2004-04-19 14:19:03 UTC
Permalink
--




www.unclet.netifms.com
Post by torresD
"RogueStar"
I have never heard of any hispanic/latino put down
any other hispanic for trying to act "white" or to
be more "white styled" in your words.
Black skin, black identity is what hispanics
and others try to get away from, deny, try to
eradicate, not white.
Hispanics/ Latinos hide the pictures of their
dark skinned, negroid featured relatives,
not their white relatives.
Nobody is putting their straight hair,
"white looking" relatives in the closet,
it's the black skin, the black features,
flat nose, jutted out jaw, thick lips,
kinky hair that people want to hide,
deny, not white.
So does it bother you that most
hispanics in Puerto Rico are more
indiginous/African than they are white?
Have you been to Puerto Rico?
That isn't true.
Most Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico
ae not indigenous/African than they are white,
it's the other way around in Puerto Rico.
Tell it to a Cuban.
Post by torresD
Take a look at the Puerto Rican politicians,
governors, mayors, teachers, etc.,
they are a reflection of Puerto Ricans throughout
the island and they are not African looking.
If they were, they wouldn't get elected.
No they are not. They are a reflection of what PR's want to be represented
as. As with most of LA America. Identity problems....
Post by torresD
I bet you have jew-curly hair
and dark brown skin.
No I don't. Taxi's have never whizzed by me,
because they are afraid to pick me up.
I think brown skin, with nice features and nice hair
are prettier and better looking than white skin,
with the identical features.
Someone sounds as if they have an ethnic
complex. You poor PRs; you want to be part of America, but America
doesn't want you. If you want to flame, go to AFN.
Well you are certainly right there,
most Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico,
not all, but most want to be the 51st state.
However, that is not what the American adminstration,
any American administration wants, otherwise,
Puerto Rico status would not be in limbo over 100 years later.
Americans clearly do not reject Puerto Rico.
They should make it the 51st state. Then you would have to work for your
share and that Spanish language will have to go. Puerto-Rico will have to
chanhe it's name.
Post by torresD
However, blacks, because of their skin color and
negroid features are also despised in America.
Skin color more or less, negriod features? What are those? Many AA's do
not have those. PR's have similar skin tones as AA's and despite some
features, they do have negroid features in one combonation or aother. We
all came off the same boat.
Post by torresD
So that is one thing that blacks and Puerto Ricans have
in common, rejection by mainstream America.
The only difference is, that "white" Puerto Ricans,
I know you hate that term, but it's true, regardless,
can marry white males and there children will not come
out looking like zebras.
You mean, looking like PR's? That is that 'zebra' look you know, not a
'hispanic' look. I have told the story before, but I'll just tell the
results of a white-styled PR having kids with a white man (she used to deal
with black guys). She had her kid with the blond haired white dude. The
baby came out with jet-black hair and a tan! It goes to show that you never
know what you'll get when mixing with PR's or any hsipanic.
Post by torresD
So Puerto Ricans have blended into the white majority,
by marrying white males, Puerto Rican males prefer
white females, making sure their kids don't speak spanish,
or have spanish sounding names and that is how they do it.
I know plenty of Puerto Ricans, whose parents, grandparents
were born in Puerto Rico, but have married "white" so that
their children do not know their grandparents, don't know where
Puerto Rico is.
They visit Puerto Rico, to visit their parents and grandparents,
but never take their spouse or their kids.
That is how they have chosen to cope.
We do talk about it, among ourselves.
Some people are very defensive about this,
but they rationalize their actions by saying
look Puerto Ricans are not accepted in mainstream
America and we want our kids to have a chance.
I have an aunt, my mom's sister, who broke her back
raising her only daughter, using every dime from her
railroad clerk supervisor salary to invest in her daughter's
education.
Moved to a neighborhood, Riverdale, NY,
to live in a shoebox, because it was a better neighborhood
and it was.
Her daughter, Margarita, she calls herself Margaret,
but her mom named her Margarita, became a physical
therapist and married a Jewish neurologist.
She had to jump through hoops to convert to his religion
and even then she explained to me, at her mom's funeral
they never really accepted her.
They lived in Lakewood, New Jersey,
they have since moved to Israel.
Her mom, a diabetic, became blind and lost part of her foot,
eventually the entire leg, to the knee.
Margaret would come for hurried visits,
but never brought her husband or her children.
Jews have a tradition where they have "naming"
ceremonies when a child is born.
Carmenlina had to insist, to be able to invited.
My aunt, Carmenlina died, her daughter
did not bring the children to the funeral,
her husband drove her in to the city,
he did not enter the funeral parlor.
Margarita stayed for period of time and left.
She came to her mother's burial, that was
in 1992.
I keep in touch with Margarita via email.
She sends me pictures of her family,
but she has never invited me to Israel.
Her children, two sons and a daughter
have been raised as Jews, they have no
contact with the Puerto Rican side of their
family at all.
Margaret who spoke Spanish fluently,
claim she no longer remembers the language.
But I know of Puerto Rican males, marrying white females,
living in upstate, New York, their children do not visit
their "Puerto Rican" family and are being raised
in a strictly white culture, even though their kids have
spanish surnames.
It's shameful that Puerto Ricans do this,
I see it in my own family.
If these PR's were white as you say, then they would not have to marry a
white person and those kids as white, they should be able to be who they are
and be white, if they are.
Post by torresD
However, blacks would not be able to do it,
even when they want to as depicted in
"The paper bag test" because their dark skin,
negroid features, flat nose, thick, protruding lips,
jutted out jaws, kinky hair makes that impossible.
Have you really seen PR's? I don't think you have, let alone Dominicans.
torresD
2004-04-17 20:39:39 UTC
Permalink
"RogueStar"
Someone sounds as if they have an ethnic complex.
"They" have an ethnic complex problem
and AA's don't?? Sounds like AA's are in denial.

Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private

The paper bag test
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/31/Columns/The_paper_bag_test.shtml
By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003

Each year,
the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission receives about 85,000
discrimination cases,

a phenomenon to be expected in
a society that touts itself as a
"melting pot."

Many of these cases involve the
omplaints of minority groups
against majority groups.

We rarely expect a member of a
minority group to discriminate
against someone else in the same
group.

But that is exactly what happens
among African-Americans.

More than any other minority
group in the United States,
blacks discriminate against
one another.

The discrimination, called "colorism,"
is based on skin tone:

whether a person is dark-skinned
or light-skinned or in the broad
middle somewhere.

Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private.

According to the EEOC, though,
the number of such cases are steadily
increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal
year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002,
a figure that represents about
3 percent of all cases the
agency receives yearly.

The most recent case making news
in the black press involves two
employees of an Applebee's restaurant
in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta.

There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter,
who has left the restaurant, filed a
lawsuit against Applebee's and his
light-skinned African-American manager.

In the suit,
Burch alleged that during
his three-month stint,
the manager repeatedly referred to
him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby."

The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin,
and Burch was fired after he refused to do so,
the suit states.

Colorism has a long and ugly
history among American blacks,
dating back to slavery,

when light-skinned blacks were
automatically given preferential
treatment by plantation owners
and their henchmen.

Colorism's history is fascinating:

Fair-skinned slaves automatically
enjoyed plum jobs in the master's
house, if they had to work at all.

Many traveled throughout the nation
and abroad with their masters and
their families.

They were exposed to the finer things,
and many became educated as a result.

Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields.

They were the ones who were
beaten, burned and hanged,
the ones permanently condemned
to be the lowest of the low in
U.S. society.

For them, even learning -
reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic -
was illegal.

When slavery ended,
light-skinned blacks established
social organizations that barred
darker ex-slaves.

Elite blacks of the early 20th century
were fair-skinned almost to the person.

Even today,
most blacks in high positions
have fair skin tones, and most
blacks who do menial jobs or
are in prison are dark.

Believe it or not,
popular black magazines,
such as Ebony as Essence,
prefer light-skinned models
in their beauty product ads.

For many years, entrance to
special social events operated
on the "brown paper bag" principle,
which I will explain.

Until quite recently,
black fraternities and sororities,
for example, recruited according to
skin tone.

Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes
the problem, and Alice Walker's novel
The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.

In his 1996 book The Future of the Race,
Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the
Afro-American studies department at Harvard,
described his encounter with the brown
paper bag when he came to Yale in the
late 1960s,

when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced:

"Some of the brothers who came from
New Orleans held a "bag party.'

As a classmate explained it to me,
a bag party was a New Orleans custom
wherein a brown paper bag was stuck
on the door.

"Anyone darker than the
bag was denied entrance.

That was one cultural legacy that
would be put to rest in a hurry -
we all made sure of that.

But in a manner of speaking,
it was replaced by an opposite
test whereby those who were deemed
"not black enough' ideologically
were to be shunned.

I was not sure this was an improvement."

Gates was overly optimistic.
The brown paper bag test remains
in black culture in various incarnations,
as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's
statistics confirm.

We separate ourselves by skin tone
almost as much as we ever did.

If, say,
you check out the "desired"
female beauties in rap videos,
you will find redbones galore.

Back to the Applebee's case.

A spokesman for the chain
issued this statement:

"No one should have to put up
with mean and humiliating comments
about the color of their skin on the job. . . .

It makes no difference that these
comments are made by someone of your
own race.

Actually, that makes it even worse."

Although the chain denied the allegations,
it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.

Now for the irony of ironies:

Applebee's has added a protection,
along with cultural sensitivity training,
against skin-tone discrimination to its
antidiscrimination policies.

In other words, the company must
protect African-Americans from
other African-Americans.

Discrimination from whites and
other groups remains a big problem
for blacks.

But colorism is just as serious,
if not more so. Colorism saps our
strength from the inside.

It weakens our power and ability to
fight the outside forces that keep
us marginalized in larger society.

Correction
The Tamiami Trail was misidentified
as Alligator Alley in Bill Maxwell's Aug. 27 column.
torresD
2004-04-17 20:47:10 UTC
Permalink
""Guest""
Post by "Guest"
The funny thing is, these same hispanics who say that others (white styled?)
people are not hispanic enough are trying hard to be like those people.
You keep pointing out the speck in our eye,
without admitting to the log in yours.
AA's reject dark skin and negroid features
also.

Just mingle around an enviornment
where AA's are placed in the same social
situation as Africans or Caribbean blacks
and listen for the comments.
So stop pointing the finger at Puerto Ricans,
or anyone else, that want to leave their dark
skin, negroid features behind, AA's are just
as guilty of that.

Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private

The paper bag test
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/31/Columns/The_paper_bag_test.shtml
By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003

Each year,
the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission receives about 85,000
discrimination cases,

a phenomenon to be expected in
a society that touts itself as a
"melting pot."

Many of these cases involve the
omplaints of minority groups
against majority groups.

We rarely expect a member of a
minority group to discriminate
against someone else in the same
group.

But that is exactly what happens
among African-Americans.

More than any other minority
group in the United States,
blacks discriminate against
one another.

The discrimination, called "colorism,"
is based on skin tone:

whether a person is dark-skinned
or light-skinned or in the broad
middle somewhere.

Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private.

According to the EEOC, though,
the number of such cases are steadily
increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal
year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002,
a figure that represents about
3 percent of all cases the
agency receives yearly.

The most recent case making news
in the black press involves two
employees of an Applebee's restaurant
in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta.

There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter,
who has left the restaurant, filed a
lawsuit against Applebee's and his
light-skinned African-American manager.

In the suit,
Burch alleged that during
his three-month stint,
the manager repeatedly referred to
him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby."

The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin,
and Burch was fired after he refused to do so,
the suit states.

Colorism has a long and ugly
history among American blacks,
dating back to slavery,

when light-skinned blacks were
automatically given preferential
treatment by plantation owners
and their henchmen.

Colorism's history is fascinating:

Fair-skinned slaves automatically
enjoyed plum jobs in the master's
house, if they had to work at all.

Many traveled throughout the nation
and abroad with their masters and
their families.

They were exposed to the finer things,
and many became educated as a result.

Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields.

They were the ones who were
beaten, burned and hanged,
the ones permanently condemned
to be the lowest of the low in
U.S. society.

For them, even learning -
reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic -
was illegal.

When slavery ended,
light-skinned blacks established
social organizations that barred
darker ex-slaves.

Elite blacks of the early 20th century
were fair-skinned almost to the person.

Even today,
most blacks in high positions
have fair skin tones, and most
blacks who do menial jobs or
are in prison are dark.

Believe it or not,
popular black magazines,
such as Ebony as Essence,
prefer light-skinned models
in their beauty product ads.

For many years, entrance to
special social events operated
on the "brown paper bag" principle,
which I will explain.

Until quite recently,
black fraternities and sororities,
for example, recruited according to
skin tone.

Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes
the problem, and Alice Walker's novel
The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.

In his 1996 book The Future of the Race,
Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the
Afro-American studies department at Harvard,
described his encounter with the brown
paper bag when he came to Yale in the
late 1960s,

when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced:

"Some of the brothers who came from
New Orleans held a "bag party.'

As a classmate explained it to me,
a bag party was a New Orleans custom
wherein a brown paper bag was stuck
on the door.

"Anyone darker than the
bag was denied entrance.

That was one cultural legacy that
would be put to rest in a hurry -
we all made sure of that.

But in a manner of speaking,
it was replaced by an opposite
test whereby those who were deemed
"not black enough' ideologically
were to be shunned.

I was not sure this was an improvement."

Gates was overly optimistic.
The brown paper bag test remains
in black culture in various incarnations,
as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's
statistics confirm.

We separate ourselves by skin tone
almost as much as we ever did.

If, say,
you check out the "desired"
female beauties in rap videos,
you will find redbones galore.

Back to the Applebee's case.

A spokesman for the chain
issued this statement:

"No one should have to put up
with mean and humiliating comments
about the color of their skin on the job. . . .

It makes no difference that these
comments are made by someone of your
own race.

Actually, that makes it even worse."

Although the chain denied the allegations,
it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.

Now for the irony of ironies:

Applebee's has added a protection,
along with cultural sensitivity training,
against skin-tone discrimination to its
antidiscrimination policies.

In other words, the company must
protect African-Americans from
other African-Americans.

Discrimination from whites and
other groups remains a big problem
for blacks.

But colorism is just as serious,
if not more so. Colorism saps our
strength from the inside.

It weakens our power and ability to
fight the outside forces that keep
us marginalized in larger society.

Correction
The Tamiami Trail was misidentified
as Alligator Alley in Bill Maxwell's Aug. 27 column.
"Guest"
2004-04-19 14:23:04 UTC
Permalink
--




www.unclet.netifms.com
""Guest""
Post by "Guest"
The funny thing is, these same hispanics who say that others (white
styled?)
Post by "Guest"
people are not hispanic enough are trying hard to be like those people.
You keep pointing out the speck in our eye,
without admitting to the log in yours.
AA's reject dark skin and negroid features
also.
Just mingle around an enviornment
where AA's are placed in the same social
situation as Africans or Caribbean blacks
and listen for the comments.
So stop pointing the finger at Puerto Ricans,
or anyone else, that want to leave their dark
skin, negroid features behind, AA's are just
as guilty of that.
Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private
I admitted that, YOU are in serious denial with PR's. You are in serious
denial with PR's as black people. You are in Serious denial. Everything
you charge black people with are the same things that afflict PR's.
torresD
2004-04-17 15:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by h0mi
The "paper bag test" seems to not be limited to skin color & race
(figuratively speaking)- look at the outcry over hispanics who are deemed
"not hispanic enough" in political circles. And of course, the definition
of "American" in this country follows a similar pattern.
They are deemed "not hispanic enough" because
they can't speak, read nor write in Español.
That is the principal criticism against them.

Have you ever heard of a hispanic/latino
family hiding abuela in the kitchen,
because she's white?!

If a hispanic/latino politician is going to represent
that population, then he or she must be able to
articulate in Spanish, otherwise their toast.

Any hispanic/latino politician who runs for office,
let's say in Florida, where I have personal experience,
and cannot speak Spanish fluently, doesn't stand a chance
to connect in anyway to the large Spanish speaking population
there.

Regardless of how competent that politician is,
how brightly their star shines, speaking Spanish
to all the Cuban, Puerto Ricans, Argentinian, Dominicans,
etc., that now populate Florida is an absolute must.

If that person has an American accent when speaking
Spanish and their pronuciation is off, they would be
ridiculed out of their political campaign.

However, do you know of any hispanic/latino
running for office that is told they too "white"
to run for anything.

For Latino/Hispanic's the whiter the better,
the darker the more problems.

Are you going to say, it's not that way?!
h0mi
2004-04-20 06:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
Post by h0mi
The "paper bag test" seems to not be limited to skin color & race
(figuratively speaking)- look at the outcry over hispanics who are
deemed "not hispanic enough" in political circles. And of course, the
definition of "American" in this country follows a similar pattern.
They are deemed "not hispanic enough" because
they can't speak, read nor write in Español.
That is the principal criticism against them.
Or they don't have the right "beliefs".
Post by torresD
Have you ever heard of a hispanic/latino
family hiding abuela in the kitchen,
because she's white?!
If a hispanic/latino politician is going to represent
that population, then he or she must be able to
articulate in Spanish, otherwise their toast.
It's one thing to decide that you want a politician to speak or
articulate positions in spanish. Its quite another to say to another
hispanic person- politician or not- that they fail the "paper bag test"
because they do not speak spanish.

There's something like 30 million central americans who speak no spanish
or english. Did they suddenly stop being "hispanic"?
Post by torresD
Any hispanic/latino politician who runs for office,
let's say in Florida, where I have personal experience,
and cannot speak Spanish fluently, doesn't stand a chance
to connect in anyway to the large Spanish speaking population
there.
Regardless of how competent that politician is,
how brightly their star shines, speaking Spanish
to all the Cuban, Puerto Ricans, Argentinian, Dominicans,
etc., that now populate Florida is an absolute must.
If that person has an American accent when speaking
Spanish and their pronuciation is off, they would be
ridiculed out of their political campaign.
However, do you know of any hispanic/latino
running for office that is told they too "white"
to run for anything.
You just mentioned it.

If they don't have the right accent, or have an "American accent" while
speaking spanish, that's not a stretch from calling them "too white".
Post by torresD
For Latino/Hispanic's the whiter the better,
the darker the more problems.
Are you going to say, it's not that way?!
torresD
2004-04-20 06:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
They are deemed "not hispanic enough" because
they can't speak, read nor write in Español.
That is the principal criticism against them.
Or they don't have the right "beliefs".
Have you ever heard of a hispanic/latino
family hiding abuela in the kitchen,
because she's white?!
If a hispanic/latino politician is going to represent
that population, then he or she must be able to
articulate in Spanish, otherwise their toast.
It's one thing to decide that you want a politician to speak or
articulate positions in spanish. Its quite another to say to another
hispanic person- politician or not- that they fail the "paper bag test"
because they do not speak spanish.
There's something like 30 million central americans who speak no spanish
or english. Did they suddenly stop being "hispanic"?
Are those 30 million central americans,
who speak languages other than Spanish,
voting in USA elections?

Hispanics that want to run for office,
representing hispanic/latino populations
in the USA, must speak Spanish,
must be bilingual, or they just don't stand
a chance.
Post by torresD
Post by torresD
Any hispanic/latino politician who runs for office,
let's say in Florida, where I have personal experience,
and cannot speak Spanish fluently, doesn't stand a chance
to connect in anyway to the large Spanish speaking population
there.
Regardless of how competent that politician is,
how brightly their star shines, speaking Spanish
to all the Cuban, Puerto Ricans, Argentinian, Dominicans,
etc., that now populate Florida is an absolute must.
If that person has an American accent when speaking
Spanish and their pronuciation is off, they would be
ridiculed out of their political campaign.
However, do you know of any hispanic/latino
running for office that is told they too "white"
to run for anything.
You just mentioned it.
If they don't have the right accent, or have an "American accent" while
speaking spanish, that's not a stretch from calling them "too white".
Post by torresD
For Latino/Hispanic's the whiter the better,
the darker the more problems.
Are you going to say, it's not that way?!
h0mi
2004-04-21 04:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
Post by torresD
They are deemed "not hispanic enough" because
they can't speak, read nor write in Español.
That is the principal criticism against them.
Or they don't have the right "beliefs".
Have you ever heard of a hispanic/latino
family hiding abuela in the kitchen,
because she's white?!
If a hispanic/latino politician is going to represent
that population, then he or she must be able to
articulate in Spanish, otherwise their toast.
It's one thing to decide that you want a politician to speak or
articulate positions in spanish. Its quite another to say to another
hispanic person- politician or not- that they fail the "paper bag test"
because they do not speak spanish.
There's something like 30 million central americans who speak no spanish
or english. Did they suddenly stop being "hispanic"?
Are those 30 million central americans,
who speak languages other than Spanish,
voting in USA elections?
Some probably do, legally or not. That doesn't change anything, however.

If the definition of "hispanic" or "latino" is "one who speaks spanish,
fluently" then you've simply created a variation of the "paper bag" test
which simply says "Spanish speakers are hispanic, non spanish speakers
ain't". The denigration of the use of English vs. the use of Nahuatl or
other aboriginal languages only further demonstrates this tortured logic.
torresD
2004-04-17 20:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Guest"
Funny you should post this. PR's and other (mainly) Caribbean hispanics use
this also. Slavery affects all of us who were slaves, it is not only in
America. I would also bet this is practiced in the Arabic world.
Arabs are enslaving blacks in
places like the Sudan, right now.
There are groups in the USA, that have
raised funds, in order to go places like the Sudan,
and buy back African children that have been either
kidnapped or sold into slavery by desperately poor
parents and restore these children to their families.
The BBC, Newsworld International and NYTimes
frequently carry these stories. Google it, look it up.
====================================
Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private

The paper bag test
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/31/Columns/The_paper_bag_test.shtml
By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003

Each year,
the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission receives about 85,000
discrimination cases,

a phenomenon to be expected in
a society that touts itself as a
"melting pot."

Many of these cases involve the
omplaints of minority groups
against majority groups.

We rarely expect a member of a
minority group to discriminate
against someone else in the same
group.

But that is exactly what happens
among African-Americans.

More than any other minority
group in the United States,
blacks discriminate against
one another.

The discrimination, called "colorism,"
is based on skin tone:

whether a person is dark-skinned
or light-skinned or in the broad
middle somewhere.

Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private.

According to the EEOC, though,
the number of such cases are steadily
increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal
year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002,
a figure that represents about
3 percent of all cases the
agency receives yearly.

The most recent case making news
in the black press involves two
employees of an Applebee's restaurant
in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta.

There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter,
who has left the restaurant, filed a
lawsuit against Applebee's and his
light-skinned African-American manager.

In the suit,
Burch alleged that during
his three-month stint,
the manager repeatedly referred to
him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby."

The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin,
and Burch was fired after he refused to do so,
the suit states.

Colorism has a long and ugly
history among American blacks,
dating back to slavery,

when light-skinned blacks were
automatically given preferential
treatment by plantation owners
and their henchmen.

Colorism's history is fascinating:

Fair-skinned slaves automatically
enjoyed plum jobs in the master's
house, if they had to work at all.

Many traveled throughout the nation
and abroad with their masters and
their families.

They were exposed to the finer things,
and many became educated as a result.

Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields.

They were the ones who were
beaten, burned and hanged,
the ones permanently condemned
to be the lowest of the low in
U.S. society.

For them, even learning -
reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic -
was illegal.

When slavery ended,
light-skinned blacks established
social organizations that barred
darker ex-slaves.

Elite blacks of the early 20th century
were fair-skinned almost to the person.

Even today,
most blacks in high positions
have fair skin tones, and most
blacks who do menial jobs or
are in prison are dark.

Believe it or not,
popular black magazines,
such as Ebony as Essence,
prefer light-skinned models
in their beauty product ads.

For many years, entrance to
special social events operated
on the "brown paper bag" principle,
which I will explain.

Until quite recently,
black fraternities and sororities,
for example, recruited according to
skin tone.

Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes
the problem, and Alice Walker's novel
The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.

In his 1996 book The Future of the Race,
Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the
Afro-American studies department at Harvard,
described his encounter with the brown
paper bag when he came to Yale in the
late 1960s,

when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced:

"Some of the brothers who came from
New Orleans held a "bag party.'

As a classmate explained it to me,
a bag party was a New Orleans custom
wherein a brown paper bag was stuck
on the door.

"Anyone darker than the
bag was denied entrance.

That was one cultural legacy that
would be put to rest in a hurry -
we all made sure of that.

But in a manner of speaking,
it was replaced by an opposite
test whereby those who were deemed
"not black enough' ideologically
were to be shunned.

I was not sure this was an improvement."

Gates was overly optimistic.
The brown paper bag test remains
in black culture in various incarnations,
as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's
statistics confirm.

We separate ourselves by skin tone
almost as much as we ever did.

If, say,
you check out the "desired"
female beauties in rap videos,
you will find redbones galore.

Back to the Applebee's case.

A spokesman for the chain
issued this statement:

"No one should have to put up
with mean and humiliating comments
about the color of their skin on the job. . . .

It makes no difference that these
comments are made by someone of your
own race.

Actually, that makes it even worse."

Although the chain denied the allegations,
it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.

Now for the irony of ironies:

Applebee's has added a protection,
along with cultural sensitivity training,
against skin-tone discrimination to its
antidiscrimination policies.

In other words, the company must
protect African-Americans from
other African-Americans.

Discrimination from whites and
other groups remains a big problem
for blacks.

But colorism is just as serious,
if not more so. Colorism saps our
strength from the inside.

It weakens our power and ability to
fight the outside forces that keep
us marginalized in larger society.

Correction
The Tamiami Trail was misidentified
as Alligator Alley in Bill Maxwell's Aug. 27 column.
"Guest"
2004-04-19 14:24:29 UTC
Permalink
--




www.unclet.netifms.com
Post by torresD
Post by "Guest"
Funny you should post this. PR's and other (mainly) Caribbean hispanics
use
Post by "Guest"
this also. Slavery affects all of us who were slaves, it is not only in
America. I would also bet this is practiced in the Arabic world.
Arabs are enslaving blacks in
places like the Sudan, right now.
There are groups in the USA, that have
raised funds, in order to go places like the Sudan,
and buy back African children that have been either
kidnapped or sold into slavery by desperately poor
parents and restore these children to their families.
The BBC, Newsworld International and NYTimes
frequently carry these stories. Google it, look it up.
====================================
Most African-Americans refuse to
discuss this self-destructive problem
even in private
You don't even know what an arab is. You people are just renegade
mulattoes.
torresD
2004-04-19 17:19:26 UTC
Permalink
""Guest""
Post by "Guest"
You don't even know what an arab is.
FAITH UNDER FIRE

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28304
Arab masters raping boy slaves
Sudanese: 'If you refuse [sex],
sometimes they would shoot you'
-----------------------------
Posted: July 18, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Mandi Steele

Adolescent boy slaves in southern
Sudan report that their Arab masters
routinely rape them, according to
Freedom Now World News, which just
returned from the embattled African nation.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28304
"Guest"
2004-04-20 00:43:58 UTC
Permalink
That tells you? Do you know what a Puerto Rican is?
--
www.unclet.netifms.com
""Guest""
Post by "Guest"
You don't even know what an arab is.
FAITH UNDER FIRE
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28304
Arab masters raping boy slaves
Sudanese: 'If you refuse [sex],
sometimes they would shoot you'
-----------------------------
Posted: July 18, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Mandi Steele
Adolescent boy slaves in southern
Sudan report that their Arab masters
routinely rape them, according to
Freedom Now World News, which just
returned from the embattled African nation.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28304
torresD
2004-04-20 06:32:59 UTC
Permalink
Guest,
You owe in apology.
Whether you give it or not,
that's up to you.

But you do owe an apology.
Post by "Guest"
That tells you? Do you know what a Puerto Rican is?
--
www.unclet.netifms.com
""Guest""
Post by "Guest"
You don't even know what an arab is.
FAITH UNDER FIRE
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28304
Arab masters raping boy slaves
Sudanese: 'If you refuse [sex],
sometimes they would shoot you'
-----------------------------
Posted: July 18, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Mandi Steele
Adolescent boy slaves in southern
Sudan report that their Arab masters
routinely rape them, according to
Freedom Now World News, which just
returned from the embattled African nation.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28304
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